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Debate on Hearing Sound in Attainment: Does One in Jhāna Hear Sounds?
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Debate on Hearing Sound in Attainment: Does One in Jhāna Hear Sounds?

Samāpanno saddaṃ suṇātītikathā

Three debates at the end of chapter 18 asking whether there is an intermediate jhāna between jhānas, whether one in attainment hears sound, and whether the eye sees forms. The Theravādin points out that concentration arises with mind-consciousness, that two minds do not meet, and that the Buddha's saying that sound is a thorn to the first jhāna does not mean that one in jhāna still hears sound.

7 points

In the Kathāvatthu, Abhidhamma Piṭaka, Tipiṭaka volume 37, at the end of chapter 18, three consecutive debates concern concentration and sense perception. The first is the Jhānantarika Kathā: the opponent (paravādī) holds that there is an intermediate jhāna — concentration without applied thought but with sustained thought — lying between the first and second jhānas. The Theravādin (sakavādī) asks why there should be an interval only between that pair and not between other jhānas, and quotes the Buddha's teaching of three kinds of concentration: with applied and sustained thought, without applied but with sustained thought, and without either.

The second is the Samāpanno Saddaṃ Suṇātīti Kathā: the opponent holds that one in attainment hears sound. The Theravādin asks whether such a one then also sees forms, smells, tastes and feels touches. Concentration belongs to one endowed with mind-consciousness, while hearing belongs to one endowed with ear-consciousness; if they arose together, two minds would meet. The opponent quotes the Buddha's words that sound is a thorn to the first jhāna. The Theravādin replies that applied and sustained thought are also called a thorn to the second jhāna, yet they are not present in the second jhāna.

The third, the Cakkhunā Rūpaṃ Passatīti Kathā, asks whether one sees forms with the eye. The Theravādin asks: the eye is form — does form see form? Does the eye have adverting, attention or intention? The opponent quotes the discourse that a monk sees forms with the eye, up to feeling touches with the body. The text ends with this claim.

  1. 1

    Is there an intermediate jhāna? Atthi jhānantarikā

    The opponent holds that there is an intermediate jhāna between the first and second jhānas. The Theravādin asks whether there is one between the second and third, or the third and fourth, as well. The opponent says no, so the Theravādin asks why there should be one only between the first pair.

    Applying it in daily life

    When you meet a very detailed map of stages of practice, ask whether it matches the core teachings, rather than adding new stages of your own.

  2. 2

    Three kinds of concentration Savitakko savicāro samādhi

    The opponent reasons that while concentration without applied but with sustained thought is occurring, the first jhāna has ceased and the second has not arisen, and this concentration is none of the four jhānas. The Theravādin quotes the Buddha's teaching of three kinds of concentration — with applied and sustained thought, without applied but with sustained thought, and without either — so the second kind should not be called an intermediate jhāna. This point is for overall understanding.

    Applying it in daily life

    In sitting meditation, a mind that must keep being pulled back to the object and a mind that stays with the object by itself are different states. Notice the difference without needing to name a stage.

  3. 3

    Does one in attainment hear sound? Samāpanno saddaṃ suṇāti

    The Theravādin asks: if one in attainment hears sound, does one also see forms with the eye, smell, taste and feel touches with the body? And is one in attainment endowed with ear-consciousness? The opponent says no.

    Applying it in daily life

    If you still hear sounds around you while sitting, it doesn't mean you're practising wrongly. The mind is at the ear for a moment; know it, then return to the breath.

  4. 4

    Concentration arises with mind-consciousness Samādhi manoviññāṇasamaṅgissa

    The Theravādin points out that concentration belongs to one endowed with mind-consciousness, while hearing sound belongs to one endowed with ear-consciousness. If the two arose together, two contacts and two minds would meet, which the opponent rejects.

    Applying it in daily life

    When doing work that needs focus, silence notifications first, since each time the mind turns to listen is a moment it leaves the work.

  5. 5

    Sound is a thorn to the first jhāna Paṭhamassa jhānassa saddo kaṇṭako

    The opponent quotes the Buddha's words that sound is a thorn to the first jhāna, and so holds that one in attainment hears sound. The Theravādin agrees that these words exist but does not accept the conclusion.

    Applying it in daily life

    See disturbing noise as something that shows your calm is still fragile, not as an enemy to get angry at.

  6. 6

    A thorn isn't found in what it pricks Dutiyassa jhānassa vitakko vicāro kaṇṭako

    The Theravādin points out that the Buddha called applied and sustained thought a thorn to the second jhāna, rapture a thorn to the third, in-and-out breathing a thorn to the fourth, and so on up to perception and feeling as a thorn to one in cessation — yet no one says these are still present in those attainments. The same goes for sound.

    Applying it in daily life

    What the mind still stumbles on shows where you really are. Use it as an honest gauge instead of guessing how far you've progressed.

  7. 7

    Does the eye see forms? Natthi cakkhussa āvajjanā

    The Theravādin asks: if the eye sees forms, does form see form? Does the eye have adverting, attention or intention? The opponent agrees it does not, but quotes the discourse that a monk sees forms with the eye, hears sounds with the ear, up to feeling touches with the body. The text ends with this claim. This point is for overall understanding.

    Applying it in daily life

    When your eyes are open but your mind is wandering, you may fail to find glasses lying on the desk right in front of you. Real seeing needs an attentive mind.

Try it in daily life

People who meditate often treat surrounding sounds as enemies. This debate offers a new view: what is a thorn to a level of concentration is not present in that level. While sounds are still clearly heard, the mind is still perceiving through the ear, which is normal for anyone training. When you hear, know that you hear, and return to the meditation object without getting annoyed at the sound.

The debate on the eye seeing forms invites us to notice that seeing doesn't come from the eye alone; it also needs the mind's attention. That's why we can look straight past something in front of us when the mind is elsewhere. This applies to driving, listening to someone, and detailed work.

Jhāna is the experience of deep meditators. There's no need to measure which jhāna you're in; good practice shows in a calmer mind and in seeing things more truly in daily life.

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