“Yes, sir,” replied the householder Upāli to the Jain Ñātika. He rose from his seat, bowed, and respectfully circled him, keeping him on his right. Then he went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him, “Sir, did the Jain ascetic Dīgha Tapassī come here?” “He did, householder.” “But did you have some discussion with him?” “I did.” “And what kind of discussion did you have with him?” Then the Buddha informed Upāli of all they had discussed.

When he said this, the householder Upāli said to him, “Good, sir, well done by Tapassī! The Jain ascetic Dīgha Tapassī has answered the ascetic Gotama like a learned disciple who rightly understands their teacher’s instructions. For how impressive is the measly mental rod when compared with the solid physical rod? Rather, the physical rod is the most blameworthy for performing bad deeds, not so much the verbal rod or the mental rod.” “Householder, so long as you debate on the basis of truth, we can have some discussion about this.” “I will debate on the basis of truth, sir. Let us have some discussion about this.”