But since this is not the case, aren’t you experiencing painful, sharp feelings due only to your own exertion, which out of ignorance, unknowing, and confusion you misconstrue to imply: “Everything this individual person experiences—pleasurable, painful, or neutral—is because of past deeds. …”?’ When I said this, I did not see any legitimate defense of their doctrine from the Jains.

Furthermore, I said to those Jain ascetics, ‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced in this life, can exertion make it be experienced in lives to come?’ ‘No, reverend.’ ‘But if a deed is to be experienced in lives to come, can exertion make it be experienced in this life?’ ‘No, reverend.’

‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced as pleasant, can exertion make it be experienced as painful?’ ‘No, reverend.’ ‘But if a deed is to be experienced as painful, can exertion make it be experienced as pleasant?’ ‘No, reverend.’

‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced when ripe, can exertion make it be experienced when unripe?’ ‘No, reverend.’ ‘But if a deed is to be experienced when unripe, can exertion make it be experienced when ripe?’ ‘No, reverend.’