“Sir, I believe in a formless self which is made of perception.” “Suppose there was such a formless self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another. Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things. So long as that formless self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease. That too is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”

“But, sir, am I able to know whether perception is a person’s self, or whether perception and self are different things?” “It’s hard for you to understand this, since you have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination.”

“Well, if that’s the case, sir, then what do you make of this: ‘The cosmos is eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?” “This has not been declared by me, Poṭṭhapāda.”